Long time trader feels unfairly treated by trademe

[hornets_fan]

Hi all, i have been a paying member of trademe for roughly 3 years, my first hiccup with them should have taught me to steer clear but i wasn't so wise and a year later i again found myself unjustly treated by the TM management/support (resulting in closure of my account at my request).

Throughout my membership i have always mantained a clean record and never scammed or dissappointed anyone, including TM, who received payment for their fees promptly.

First hiccup was when i purchased a birthday gift from a seller who had extremely high volume of sales. As this was a while ago i am unsure of the exact numbers but i estimate that it was about 15,000 positive feedbacks and 300 negative feedbacks.

The trader scammed me, i deposited the money i had saved up for this present, the very fact it took me and my family a lot of saving to accumulate this money made me very angry when i realised that i had been taken for a ride). The item never arrived, i contacted the seller and he said that as he had sent the item, my query was with NZ Post, not him. At this point i believed his story, i requested the track and trace number (which i had paid for), so i could contact NZ Post and obtain details.

When he sent me the track and trace number for a parcel he had sent 1 week BEFORE i even won the auction, i realised he was taking me for a fool. I immediatley told him that i was aware of his game, and that i would report to trademe and police to ensure he pays the price.

Heres where i made the mistake, i emailed trademe , gave them the full story (including the dodgy track n trace number), the response was that trademe would not investigate the matter or take any action against the seller, purely because he had a lot of good feedback in comparison to his bad feedback, so trademe took the position that either he was telling the truth to me about the item being lost in the mail, or i was trying to keep the item and get my money back. This deeply offended me, and enlightened me to the horrible business practice of trademe. Each and every negative feedback is a person who has been defrauded, hoaxed and conned out of their money.

I believe it is both unfair and unethical practice to compare the negative feedback to the good feedback and all queries should be treated without any bias.

I warned trademe that i was 100% sure this was a scammer and his account should be disabled, as evidenced by the tracking number he gave me, and the recent negative feedbacks from other people who claimed their items had also been lost in the mail. At this point trademe incorrectly told me that my only option was to go to the Tribunal, that there was no point contacting police as it was strictly a civil matter.

A combination of being naive, stupid and frustrated, i believed this crap and thought that there is no way i can afford to take this person to court. I regrettably cut my losses and as a result i could no longer afford to buy the present, this deeply distressed and humiliated me.

Furthermore, i was enraged when a year later i was chatting with a lawyer and found out that the issue was infact a police matter and i was mislead by trademe, for what reason i do not know, it seems they supported the scammer in this case.

Trademe offered no further assistance and the scammer kept his account for a further 5 months, in which time he accumalated a whole lot of victims, as evidenced by the negative feedback that kept clouding his fb page. Finally, trademe disabled his account and he is no longer a member.

If trademe had heeded my warning atleast 50 people would have avoided the scammer in question

Second and most recent situation where i feel i have been let down by TM:

Regrettably i decided to use TM to sell my car, enticed by their "free relists until sold" offer i put my car up and my account went into -$45 debt. After multiple relists it became apparent that there was no interest in my vehicle and i was goin to have to settle for a live auction sale.

Even though i was unable to sell the car on TM, they mantain that i still owe them $45 and will have "free relists" for this car i no longer own. Upon emailing their support and requesting that they make it clear the $45 payment is non refundable, essentially making their claim to "free relists until sold" false advertising. They said they understood my query and fowarded the suggestion to the correct department, however i would still have to pay the $45 and my account would remain in debt.

I was astonished by this admission of wrongdoing yet continued demand of payment, i replied back stating i did not feel i owe them the money and requested immediate closure of my account. They promptly closed my account, saying goodbye to a paying customer of many years over an issue they admit was not my fault.

As i am a very open minded person, i would appreciate it if anyone who thinks i am being unreasonable comes foward and explains why, as of now i cannot understand

I eagerly anticipate the day that TM collapses as a result of its appalling support/management teams.

Anyone who asks me if trademe is a good site to trade gets a stern warning from me to steer clear.

[Foggyone]

Hi and welcome to scambusters.

Unfortunately your experiences are not unique. We have seen examples in the past concerning whether activities are fraud or a dispute, and wrong advice given. This is caused either by ignorance of the minimum wage staff, or poor training/incorrect manuals. Who can tell?

Who was the substantial trader you fell foul of? Not surprising that ™ took his word ahead of yours. It's called "Money talks".

In relation to your car, did the fee accrued happen as the result of the original listing (which would attract a fee) or later relists. And did you relist after the prior listing had expired, making your relist in fact a "new listing".

PS. Are you sure your account is in fact closed?

[hornets_fan]

Firstly, i would like to thank you for your warm welcome and reply, its extremely unfortunate to hear that my initial experience is not a unique one. I greatly appreciate your help in investigating this matter over my vehicle listing

In regards to the name of the scammer, i am unable to get this information without the re-opening of my account. But i am pretty certain the scammers account name was "swabber".

In regards to my vehicle listing, the fee was charged at the moment i placed the listing (it was a classified), and i was not charged for further relists which i did do. In this sense their statement "free relists until sold" holds weight. However, as i was unable to sell the car despite how many times i relisted and ultimately ended up selling elsewhere, i feel that the "until sold" part of the statement is untrue or atleast misleading, and their declining of any refund unacceptable. Please note that by refund, i mean clearing my account of the debt, i was going to pay before the car sold, but i was suspicious about whether or not a refund was available in the event that i could not sell the car, turns out i dodged a bullet by not paying

In my last email to them, i suggested they allow the non refundable aspect of the transaction to be more transparent to avoid further disappointment. In what seems like the only time they got something right, they said my request was a valid one and would be fowarded to the correct department.

I am sure my account is closed, it was at my request, as i could not operate the account with the debt and i refused to pay the money and they refused to wipe the debt despite acknowledging how its plausible that i was mislead by their wording, unfortuantley closure was the only option.

[jegostik1]

after paying the classified fee for all the advertising you recieved for your classified car ad..what the hell makes you think the ad was free if you didnt sell your car?(no offence intended)The fact you never intended to pay the $45 until he car was sold shows you didnt understand or intended to outwit TM-idiots they maybe-but you bought a product from them-cost $45 with free relists and didnt pay for it..
The moment you press the button and buy the product(in this case a classified ad) if it is what it is as defined..which it was... you are liable for its full payment...which part of that didnt you understand? cheers Ian

[hornets_fan]

I acknowledge my mistake, by combining the initial listing with the relists and thinking of both as the same thing, i thought that it was unfair i was unable to retrieve my money in the event the car was not sold. For this i admit i have been incorrect, and will re-imburse TM. How one could make such a trivial mistake i do not know, possibly a result of my past frustration with TM.

However, can you please explain to me how the statement "free relists until sold" can be a fair offer in the event that there is no interest in the vehicle. I believe that it is unethical to continually expect me to relist into a market where there is no interest or prospect of a sale, holding onto my car for god knows how long, all to get maximum value out of the "free relists until sold" offer.

What im saying is that the "free relists until sold" offer actually looks much sweeter than it really is, as if the vehicle generates no interest the first or second time you place the listing, you are more than likely to give up and search for another place to find a buyer.

My issue is that, as a result of the non refundable initial fee, there is an element of risk involved, and the "free relists until sold" helps to conceal this to some extent. At face value, the offer looks like a good deal, "hey who cares is the initial payment is non refundable, i can keep listing until the car is sold", what i did not realise is, if it isn't sold the first time around, the chances of obtaining a sale continually decrease until you eventually give up.

Please continue to share your thoughts on the matter

Thanks

[digidog]

Member: swabber

Oops, there was a slip up!

This membership has been closed.
Feedback on this member is not available.

Not disabled but "closed". I haven't seen that message before.

[digidog]

I've sold a couple of cars on TM and I must say that I understood that there
was a listing fee payable up front. If you list a classified ad it costs $39, at
auction there's a $39 fee plus $39 if (when) the car sells.

I've just checked TM again and their fees are stated quite clearly, early in
the listing process.

= = =

Regarding the other matter, TM have been incorrectly referring victims of
TradeMe scams to the Disputes Tribunal for years, even when an obvious
fraud has occurred. We believe their motivation is to keep the TM brand out
of Police statistics. It stinks, but that's TradeMe for you.

[hornets_fan]

I've just checked TM again and their fees are stated quite clearly, early in
the listing process.

When i stated the vehicle listing incident happened recently,by this i mean months ago, so the template may have been changed since then? I havent been back since my account was closed. I stand corrected if the template has always been the same.

The only thing puzzling me now is the agreement by trademe that i was in a comprimised situation, and their fowarding of the matter to the department

In what seems like the only time they got something right, they said my request was a valid one and would be fowarded to the correct department.

Upon being enlightened by discussing the issue, i guess TM was infact wrong to assume my case was valid

Unless i am in a very small minority who has had absolutley no success with the relists, i stand by my assertion that TM is not acting in good faith by using their "free relists until sold" statement to generate interest, for reasons stated prior.

Regarding the other matter, TM have been incorrectly referring victims of
TradeMe scams to the Disputes Tribunal for years, even when an obvious
fraud has occurred. We believe their motivation is to keep the TM brand out
of Police statistics. It stinks, but that's TradeMe for you.

I believe that they are just as responsible as the crook however ultimately its my own ignorance/stupidity for believing the shmuck telling me that someone stealing from me was not something the police would help me with

[Foggyone]

http://scambusters.co.nz/forum/viewtopi ... bber#57001

[hornets_fan]

Interesting, so swabber was a legitimate trader who had their account hacked? I suspected something fishy about the whole thing because prior to the incident, i had successfully traded with swabber before.

Thank you very much for the link

[marika3]

However, can you please explain to me how the statement "free relists until sold" can be a fair offer in the event that there is no interest in the vehicle. I believe that it is unethical to continually expect me to relist into a market where there is no interest or prospect of a sale, holding onto my car for god knows how long, all to get maximum value out of the "free relists until sold" offer.

TM classified ads are not auctions, they are ads, same as newspaper ads.
To run an ad in newspaper you have to pay upfront. And you have to pay for every next run too, if you want to continue.
On TM you only pay once, for placing an ad, and then can re-run it for free as many times as you like, till buyer found or you decide to give up.
This is a pretty fair offer, I'd say.
Also, TM is just a media, where people can trade their goods. TM can not guarantee that everyone will find a buyer - same as newspapers or community boards at supermarkets can not promise you the sale. They are just media, nothing more.

[jegostik1]

just imagine what would happen if there were refunds for not sold vehicles..opens the door to all sorts of liars..

anyway it seems in the end the vehicle was sold through whatever other means so that means that any idea of a refund is invalid..Tm doesnt state it has to be SOLD thru them..just SOLD..end of story..

the great thing about a classified is it enables you to edit the ad until you meet the market..and its a more reliable ad because punters can drop around and make a real offer..auctions dont always work out because of mis-representation on both sides..there is no obligation to pay in an auction for a car if the vehicle is not what has been represented..

[Rose1]

To the first original post, you have been with trade ,or where past tense for 3 years,I was with trademe for over 10 + years of Loyal faultless payments to them , waste of my $$ . So I to closed my own account ( they need you more than you need them) not long ago and have NO regret doing so.... my Story was the Flip side when you get a Impulsive Buyer " who we gave 6 week to pay for a Non refundable e deposit / sale last payment made the -7 week( yes not just the tdme Policy of 7-10 days period to pay a Seller) and all that needed to be discusses was passed tense before they had a option to cancel if they chose to, rather they continued to pay say gin they where very happy with their sale( even wrote a email to us that they had named their pet) now viewers remember Pet and Animals/ Lifestock sales make what trade says to be about 20% of their sales, and when it cost some one the cares for a living animal no matter what after a Buyer BUYS a animal, "yes they can change their mind, they just cannot "presume" it s aright to get a Full refund) as I was out of pocket as they knew what they paid for also clearly went into things like flea treatment and Vaccines.

if any discussion from trade and the sleep give no convincing evinced of facts along the line what who trade say a Buyer must be treated like eg: farmers and so on, "and no one cannot explain any the Seller as to why in any emails? but the person was happy with the sale and accepted terms of agreement of non refundable sale and new and saw in email exactly wen by week their purchased Pet put to the age 8 weeks when ready to leave and "leads" and decides that Seller they will be picking it up, after they failed to get the Pet for less, then makes their own day and time to pick it tom and fails to do so, (we gave dress to pick up by the 7th week /early 8th week end, they said not come the weekend, they said Tuesday, that was them making their own agreement, great we had both agreed, we said fine..... (Then was the last we heard, then got a very basic email, with NO tdme explanation as why we should Refund the Buyer... from TDME saying the Buyer had changed their minds and wanted a Refund)?

that split the workers at trademe as they could see this was a "reverse same thing" where as some that TDME did not wish Sellers to do to Buyers, in this case TD ME had no concrete reason why I should pay back and as this had ONLY haven once I stuck to my conviction as the Buyer incurred costs to me because they failed the process and terms of their agreement. Buyer could not get out of their sale as was "NO misinterpretation and the goods where not goods, (rather was was a living Animal that a Buyer decided to abandon their sale), and so was the animal with no new owner, simply (paid but not picked up as they promised)

They wanted the animal after the deposit then sent a email to say that wants did at 6 weeks of age, I refused their wanting this,meaning they would have to still owe the balance, they even said a Vet told then it was ok to take the kitten at 6 weeks, well one way to verify things is to ask qs, so I did at the time I asked the Buyer who they Vet was, I rang the Vet and asked did they give any advice to the person that it woudl of been ok to take a 6 week old animal away? of corse the Vet said no they would not do so, however the Buery had convinced some the animal was hers and she convicts it was hers just because she paid the deposit, she was terribly wrong in many ways. ( she also groaned that she had a debt beofre she told me she accepted to buy it, I told her to sort her personal stuff out first then get back and if she still wants the Pet she then could place the deposit and pay the rest buy the 7th week, she did this.... but failed her side.


Rather they ran to trade expecting they would be entitled to a full refund although both they and Trademe failed terribly to follow there own guide lines of sorting a matter out which is this process... Trade made more of a Emotional Judgment, which is the reason when say a Buyer is red in their face the threading you in emails and then accuse you of being a Thief, simply go ask a Lawyer they will place you right



Do your Homework and be satisfied.
1. Go to tech Fair Trading Act be a member add they will help you, they will listen and guide you, believe it or not just because you ring Trade doe into mean they know the ACT or have ever made a in depth study of what FAIR trade means, as it for BOTH a Buyer and A Seller, it wont simply take one view never another unless you have "Facts" and or fair enough evidence.

2. The old saying that the Buyer also is always right needs to be proven by a "neutral body" out side of Trade me paws as to say, as then facts should cone out, rather than emotions, which helps to make sure there is no other motive than to speak the Truth with facts aright, after all one cannot wort things properly over a phone or a email specially when it comes to money situations, and he said she said issues.