TradeMe in court for "black market"

Fake copies of Microsoft Office, operating systems, memory cards and flash drives, fake designer clothing... anything of that nature. At any given time TM offers thousands of fake itmes which breach their terms & conditions... and often do little about the problem. This is the place to discuss the issue.
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digidog
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TradeMe in court for "black market"

Post by digidog » Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:10 pm

TradeMe in court for "black market"
Sunday Star Times - 6 July 2008
TradeMe is being sued for an undisclosed sum in damages by an importer
who claims it did not do enough to prevent counterfeit versions of his
goods being sold in online auctions.

The case is being taken by Paul Meier, managing director of Brand
Developers Ltd (BDL), the licensed importer of Ab King Pro exercise
machines, which are sold mainly through TV infomercials.

Meier claims TradeMe auctions sold thousands of counterfeit Ab King Pros
made from lower-grade steel and imported from China by TradeMe
members.

He likens his action to the successful civil suit taken by luxury goods
maker Louis Vuitton Moet Hennessy against online auction site eBay in
France. LVMH was awarded $US61 million ($80m) after the court ruled
the online auction operation had not done enough to prevent the sale of
counterfeits. eBay is appealing that decision.

"TradeMe was very difficult to deal with on this," Meier said. "They didn't
want to know anything about it. There were approximately 7000 auctions
before they closed them down.

"My take on it is there is a big counterfeit market on TradeMe and it is
technically not policed because they don't check any of the auctions
before they just chuck them up there.

"It gets the whole black market economy happening in this country."

TradeMe's Mike O'Donnell confirmed that TradeMe had been named as
one of a number of defendants in the civil suit, which was due to come
before the courts in late 2009, but he said it was inappropriate to
comment at this early stage.

He said TradeMe employed a fulltime investigator to work with firms at
risk from counterfeit sales on TradeMe.

Those firms were asked to provide TradeMe with proof they were the sole
licensed importer of a specific good or particular brand and TradeMe
would identify and scrutinise suspect auctions.

That system parallels the Customs border protection notice system,
where licensed importers of branded goods such as Prada, Dunhill,
Playboy, Pumpkin Patch and Zippo can lodge notices that put Customs on
alert for imports of those brands, counterfeit or not, coming in through
unauthorised channels.

"Worldwide it is a problem, and New Zealand is no exception to that," said
O'Donnell. "Last week, for instance, we had 1.4 million auctions and over
that time our compliance team warned or banned 250 of our members
[for selling counterfeit goods, or goods they had no licence to sell]. It's a
growing problem."

O'Donnell said TradeMe had a zero tolerance policy and it took as little as
one auction to prompt it to respond. Members could easily be banned and
TradeMe used its "audit trails" to help with civil or criminal prosecutions.

O'Donnell sees one reason TradeMe is being sued is that its owner,
Fairfax, which also owns the Sunday Star-Times, has money, and BDL is
already running up a big legal bill to protect the Ab King Pro brand.

Meier said he had spent $250,000 already, and expected the bill to
double. "What do you do? If I didn't stand up for the brand, it would be
buggered by now."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4609407a10.html

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Uramit
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Having nothing better to do..........

Post by Uramit » Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:56 am

On Friday, I thought I would trawl through the "AUTHENTIC" Louis Vuitton, Prada, Gucci etc etc. I found 11 (eleven) in the space of a few minutes. So I did my Girl Guide bit and CWed all of them. Well guess what - it is now 5.50pm on Sunday 6 July and they are STILL THERE with bidding going higher and higher!!
O'Donnell said TradeMe had a zero tolerance policy
Not exactly Mr O'Donnell if I can find all those in the time it takes to drink a cup of tea!

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Post by digidog » Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:28 am

He said TradeMe employed a fulltime investigator to work
with firms at risk from counterfeit sales on TradeMe.
What a load of bollocks. If that's the case why are 99% of the LV listings
on TradeMe fakes? How about the hundreds of fake Sony memory cards
on TM at the moment? Name any major brand and you'll find fake copies
on TradeMe and their "fulltime investigator" is doing nothing to stop them.

Wait... what's that sound? My goodness... I do believe that Mr O'Donnell's
nose is growing ever larger by the minute!

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Post by Uramit » Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:46 am

MOD said many moons ago that TM did NOT have a problem with fakes, replicas etc etc so why this
"TradeMe was very difficult to deal with on this," Meier said. "They didn't want to know anything about it. There were approximately 7000 auctions before they closed them down.
Am I missing something here or have TM just been found out - dare I say it - telling porkies?? Quite agree digidog that their noisy nose is going to cause them a few problems!

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Post by visual_impact » Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:24 am

Well all I can say is I hope AB Pro takes TM for heaps!!!!!

About time TM had a big boy in their pen, might make them sit up and listen for a change!

Because they sure don't give a toss about the little people that keeps them employed.

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Post by NZ Websites » Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:39 am

O'Donnell said TradeMe had a zero tolerance policy and it took as little as one auction to prompt it to respond.
Excuse me!!!!!

You have to give MOD the BS prize of the year!
Visit us for Low-Cost and Free website hosting, at www.webhostdirect.co.nz

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Post by digidog » Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:02 am

The Herald has a variation on the story today.
A genuine Ab King Pro retails, via television, for $299, while a fake device
can go for as little as $50 at online auction.

BDL filed a border protection notice in October 2007, which allowed
Customs officers to intercept a number of fake machines at the border.

As of March this year, Customs had seized 4734 counterfeit machines
throughout the country with an estimated value of around $1.41 million.

Mr Meier has launched legal action against Trade Me, claiming the site has
not done enough to stop the counterfeiters.

But Trade Me spokesman Mike O'Donnell yesterday told the Herald the
site had three defence measures against counterfeit products: a security
officer; "special tools and filters" to stop counterfeiting; and facilities for
Trade Me users to alert the site to bogus products.

Trade Me employed an investigator who could issue warnings to users
and ban counterfeit traders.

Mr O'Donnell said BDL had approached the site in the middle of last year
with concerns about counterfeit Ab King Pros, and a number of specific
measures were put in place.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/sto ... d=10520297
"Special tools and filters" - that's great. So presumably there are no
longer any fakes on TradeMe? Yeah, right!

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So, so similar.......

Post by CliveHill » Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:10 am

>> Next time you are writing that important influential document,
>> remember the following example of gilding-the-lily.
>>
>> Judy Wallman, a professional genealogical researcher, discovered that
>> Hillary Clinton's great-great uncle, Remus Rodham, was hanged for
>> horse stealing and train robbery in Montana in 1889. The only known
>> photograph of Remus shows him standing on the gallows. On the back of
>> the picture is this inscription: "Remus Rodham; horse thief, sent to
>> Montana Territorial Prison 1885, escaped 1887, robbed the Montana
>> Flyer six times. Caught by Pinkerton detectives, convicted and hanged in
> 1889."
>>
>> Judy e-mailed Hillary Clinton for comments. Hillary's staff sent back
>> the following biographical sketch:
>>
>> "Remus Rodham was a famous cowboy in the Montana Territory. His
>> business empire grew to include acquisition of valuable equestrian
>> assets and intimate dealings with the Montana railroad. Beginning in
>> 1883, he devoted several years of his life to service at a government
>> facility, finally taking leave to resume his dealings with the
>> railroad. In 1887 he was a key player in a vital investigation run by
>> the renowned Pinkerton Detective Agency. In 1889 Remus passed away
>> during an important civic function held in his honor, when the
>> platform on which he was standing collapsed."
>>
>> And that, folks, is, without a doubt, how it is done!!
They are both the same story but one is accurate & without "Special tools and filters"

As for "facilities for Trade Me users to alert the site to bogus products."
IF this is CW then we all know it only works if the owner of the copyright happens to be a TM member & does the CW or complains using the (non free) 0900.
:roll:
Honesty and Integrity are always the best Policies !

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Post by digidog » Mon Jul 07, 2008 10:55 am

Another online auction site sued
Smart Company Magazine - 7 July 2008
Online auction sites could be sued in Australia for selling counterfeit
products, but the business doing the suing would need deep pockets,
a leading IP lawyer says.

New Zealand based site TradeMe has become the second online auction
site to face legal action for allegedly allowing vendors to sell counterfeit
products.

Last month eBay was forced to pay more than $60 million to compensate
fragrance companies for damage they sustained as a consequence of
counterfeit perfumes being sold on the site. It is appealing the decision.

TradeMe’s opponent is seeking to defend a slightly less glamorous
product, the New Zealand Herald reports; the Ab King Pro exercise
machine.

The New Zealand importer of the Ab King Pro, Brand Developers, argues
it has lost millions in sales because thousands of cheap knock-offs of the
machine have been imported from China and sold on TradeMe.

The similarity of New Zealand and Australian law means the TradeMe
case could prove a good test of whether a similar kind of case could work
here, according to Wayne Condon, senior partner with IP and patent law
firm Griffith Hack.

“Theoretically this could happen in Australia,” Condon says. “New Zealand
law is pretty close when it comes to questions of negligence and IP law,
so it could definitely provide some pointers.”

Condon says the two main legal avenues open to a business seeking to
take action against an online site selling counterfeit products would be for
colluding in a breach of IP laws or negligently failing to prevent a vendor
selling the products.

But either way, Condon says, taking the legal action would not be cheap
– and there would be no guarantee of success.

“Online auction houses are in a difficult position – in the case of eBay, it is
selling billions of dollars worth of goods each year, so policing everything
that is sold is a very difficult ask,” Condon says.

“It is worth being vigilant, and brand owners would want to be policing
where products are sold and following up with vendors that could be
selling counterfeits,” he says. “But legal action will be very difficult, very
costly and there are significant hurdles involved.”

Read the full story...

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Post by digidog » Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:54 pm

Today's NBR compares the recent eBay / LV case with the Ab King action
against TradeMe. The NBR argues that the result is more likely to follow
the Tiffany vs eBay case in the US, where the judge decided that eBay was
not liable for “contributory trade mark infringement” as alleged by Tiffany.
The US decision held:
“The standard is not whether eBay could reasonably anticipate possible
infringement, but rather whether eBay continued to supply its services to
sellers when it knew or had reason to know of infringement by those sellers.
The NBR continues...
Our Courts are more likely to follow the United States decision and look
at the systems put in place by the likes of TradeMe, and other similar
New Zealand auction sites, and ask whether they have done everything
that a “reasonable auction site provider” would do to prevent
counterfeiters selling their fake products on their site.

These measures could include:
• hiring staff to check out potential counterfeits
• having a stated zero tolerance policy
banning any offenders from future advertising or selling on
their website

• use of “audit trails” to assist in legal action against counterfeiters
removing listings of obvious counterfeits before the listings become
public


Actions like these are likely to show that the auction website provider is
acting responsibly in doing everything it can to stop the fakes being sold
on its website. Such measures are then likely to shift the onus back to
the brand owner to ensure that it is doing everything possible to stop the
fakes being sold.
We know that TradeMe do not patrol new listings for fakes, even though
it's a relatively easy thing to do. And they seem happy to allow recidivist
offenders to keep trading.

It'll be an interesting case if it comes to court.

Read the full NBR story...

The Tiffany decision...

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Post by scott_evil » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:34 pm

I hope this guy wins his case against TradeMe. It is well overdue to see them pay for their blatant ignorance towards counterfeiting.
______

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Post by digidog » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:42 pm

The Herald reports that the company behind those bloody annoying Ab Circle Pro ads
that seem to dominate late night television is suing 1-day (dot co dot nz) for selling
cheap copies of the machines.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=10682641" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There's also a reference to the TM action referred to above.
Two years ago Meier took action against the Trade Me website, claiming it failed to
stop counterfeit Ab King Pro equipment being sold on the site. Meier says a
"confidential settlement" was reached.

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